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Utter 40K rules abuse and chesse tactics.
Seth made an important point in the Dark Heresy thread about discussing blatant rules abuse rather than hiding it is better because someone might find it and try it without realizing its a bad thing.
I've been wanting to keep it quiet so no one actually does it, but it actually a BETTER idea to show it to people and tell them, "You do this, and I punch you in the neck."
Ok maybe not really punch someone for it, but it should be noted I'd never again play against someone who did it.
So here is the REALLY nasty rules abuse situation that i have been trying to keep quiet.
Its called the "Checkerboard"
It works like this...Get two squads of standard ork boyz. 30 models per squad (yes, total of 60). Then set them up on the table like this:
x x x x x o o o o o
o o o o o x x x x x
o o o o o x x x x x
o o o o o x x x x x
You'll notice the squad on the left (the o's) have sent a small line of troops IN FRONT of the squad on the right. And the squad on the right (the x's) have sent a line of troops in front of the squad on the left.
Due to the new cover rules and 'shooting THROUGH units' rules, if you shoot at the O squad, you will be shooting THROUGH the X squad. If you shoot at the X squad, you will be shooting through the O squad.
What this does is grant BOTH units a 4+ cover save (because you are shooting over/through another unit). This is particularly nasty with orks, as they are DIRT CHEAP and hit like a ton of bricks. Just these two squads are pretty much guaranteed to get to the other side where the squishy targets await them. Add in another 60 orks like this and you cover the table. Then throw in a few vehicles or whatever to taste.
In short, there is NO WAY the orks can lose this battle.
This is obviously NOT the intent of the rules, and blatant rules abuse. Please don't ever do it.
Now how to fix it? Maybe whenever someone makes a 4+ cover save, a guy int he other unit dies? Maybe reduce the cover save to 5+ or 6+?
Also, if anyone else knows of any evil rules abuse like this, please post them so we can avoid them.
I disagree. Remember you can have 2 inches of space between models. there should be no problem at all moving the orks forward. As for terrain slowing them down, thats not too hard either. Running AND the WAAAGGGHHH rule can easily overcome rough terrain.
I mean seriously...no footlogging rok EVER shoots. EVER.
As for shooting over them, there is a reason they call it the Checkerboard. If you place the models to literally alternate between squads, (make it look like a checkerboard), there is no way you could negate the 4+ cover save.
x o x o x o
o x o x o x
x o x o x o
True, an actual checkerboard would be much more secure than your original formation of just one odd row in front, but it’s still too unwieldy for my taste. It takes way too long for infantry to make it across the battlefield in a straight line as it is. Orks in a checkerboard formation would have to waste movement going around the ork in front of them. Uggg!
Furthermore, it’s still possible to negate the cover save by attacking at a 45% angle, especially from an elevated position. It depends on the shape of your models. I’ve tried this with the old style orks and a cover save is by no means guaranteed. To know for sure, you would have to check for line of sight on EVERY ork and do it for EVERY firing model. After the opponent does this they will confidently say, “Cool! The orks aren’t in cover!” Then the ork player will say, “What! That’s BS! Let me check!” Then the ork player will have to check for line of sight on EVERY ork and do it for EVERY firing model. At this point, both player will need a regulation sized podium so that the great debate can begin. Two and a half hours of arguing later, the game will be over and the orks will have lost having never made it into combat.
The mere threat of this kind of thing happening should be enough to discourage most players from going with the checkerboard strategy. But if it doesn’t, that’s fine by me. I would just let the orks have their cover save. I’m sick of gunning down infantry melee armies before they even make it across the field. IMHO the game is unfairly stacked against them. This might at least give the poor sods a fighting chance.
Don’t get me wrong, I agree with you 100% that the checkerboard strategy is very cheesy. I wouldn’t blame you at all for refusing to play someone who uses it. I just don’t think that it is cheesy enough to cause problems. I’m much more worried about an imperial guard player with nine heavy support tanks who could just lob nine ordinance barrages into the center of that checkerboard and take out the whole kit-n-kabootle in the first turn.
A moving 4+ invulnerable cover save for at least 60 cheap melee troops, for free, is definitely not what the designers intended.
Being penalized for and discouraged from shooting at a unit behind a closer unit. That's what they meant.
All play skill posturing aside, as a judge I'd rule against this shared-screening.
Well, I think we all agree that the designers didn’t think of that when they made the cover rules. Moving on to another cheesy ork rules abuse. On page 55 of the ork codex it says that ANY tank shock made by a Battlewagon with a Deff Rolla causes D6 Strength 10 hits on the victim unit. On page 69 of the Warhammer 40K pocket rulebook it says that ramming is a special type of tank shock. If you strictly interpret the language of these rules, it means that a Battlewagon can ram a tank and inflict D6 Strength 10 hits. Since there is a good chance that this will remove the tank from play, the Battlewagon could continue through and destroy multiple tanks in a single turn without even firing a shot! Are there any rules that would negate this trick?
For Orky honor, I would mention that first rule works just fine for Tyranids who have even more units without guns than Orks, and more invested in getting across the battlefield unscathed.
As for the Deff Rolla question; as over-powered as that may seem, it's not so bad.
Unlike the former discussion item, the latter would require quite a bit of cooperation from your opponent and some luck to pull off. A Battlewagon with a Deff Rolla needs to get across the field without being destroyed and then have the opponent line up several vehicles within 13" inches of it, without causing more damage to the Battlewagon. Next turn, the Battlewagon needs to forego all shooting and in a straight line, roll through multiple vehicles, getting sucessful armor pens and destroyed results on each one. Plus they will have to hope there are no skimmers or Walkers to dodge out of the way or Death or Glory it.
Certainly it's possibly awesome, but entirely fair punishment for an opponent utterly brainless enough to offer up such an opporunity. Just like a squad of warbuggies maiintaining unit coherency, potentially being flattened by a standard Landraider.
Yeah, thats just another example of poor wording.
Tank shock is against infantry, ramming is against vehicles. Ignore the "special type of tank shock" crap.
Wait a minute there! Are you tellin' me my glorious Deff Rolla (as yet unmodeled nor even planned-for) does not work it's magic against vehicles?! Inconceivable!
I would NEVER set up an army in such a way so there is no need to punch me. Such a strategy would be very unwieldy unless the guy who set up the table was in the tank for the orks. You can’t move two units simultaneously and you can’t move through the models of other units. Therefore, you would have to space each ork at least an inch apart. This means that the orks would need a clear path at least 20” wide to the enemy. If the enemy cannot set up so that this is impossible, than either they deserve to lose or the table setter upper deserves that neck punch you were talking about.
Even if there was a straight path, such a formation would slow them down considerably. They would either have to run only one inch in the shooting phase or risk the formation breaking apart. If they decided to shoot instead of running, they would face the same problem of cover as the enemy.
In short, the cover save formation might make the orks half as likely to die, but it would also likely require them to spend more the twice the time to get somewhere. It all balances out. This doesn’t even address the fact there should be enough elevated firing positions on the table for some of the enemy to shoot over the first line of orks. It would also be a nightmare against barrage and template weapons.
I’m glade that the “Checkerboard” was brought up. In my opinion, the rules should be left alone, but some extra forethought should be put into table arrangement. Of course, that’s not for my benefit. I’m confident I could beat an army with 150 ork boyz on a flat table and I challenge any ork player to prove me wrong!