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Rifle Companies
Hey all,
I've been looking over the book trying to figure out what I would need for a rifle company and what might go into a good one. First thing I was speccing out was an Afrika american rifle company, and there are a lot of choices. I figured I would dump a few questions here and solicit some suggestions.
First question is mostly a sanity check. So when making a company you get up to three combat platoons (rifle platoons in this case), as many weapons platoons as you want to buy but only up to the maximum listed for each type (for instance I could have two anti tank platoon, a mortar team, and an ammo crew), and then two support platoons for each combat platoon included in the company (most likely that will mean 6 support platoons). I also have to take the HQ for 20 points.
Second question is about the differences between units. Tanks seem to differ based on the type of treads, armor, and weapon load outs. How are infantry different besides weapon load outs? For instance, there are the engineers does their variety of weapons account for how they are different from riflemen, or do they do all the cool stuff that engineers actually do in the field like clear mine fields, build bridges, and setup fortifications? What about the pioneers and ammo platoon? Are they just more riflemen that come with a free truck and bulldozer? I imagine that paratroopers have some sort of deployment rule, do these rules exist and where are they? (I have the original basic book, the free upgrade book, and the afrika book)
Ok, now for some more subjective questions. What goes well in a rifle company / what would be a good starting army? Would it make sense to stick with the basic rules for rifle company construction or go with the Afrika selections (as far as I can tell there are no tank selections for a straight rifle company).
My first stab at speccing out the points on an army looked something like this.
HQ
3 Full Rifle teams (Combat)
1 Full Mortar Team (weapon platoon)
2 Anti Tank teams (weapon platoon)
2 Heaviest Artillery (Support)
1 Self Propelled AA (Support)
2 Full Engineer platoons (Support)
1 Tank Destroyer Unit with big guns (Support)
Upgrades
Every available slot with bazookas
Every available slot with extra AA guns
Every available jeep with AA gun
One Anti-Tank team upgraded to bigger guns
This comes out to about 2000 points based on my estimates last night using the numbers in the Afrika book. Here is what I was thinking and feel free to correct me. I wanted to keep the number of units relatively low, so opted for maximum units where ever possible, and upgraded firepower liberally. I wanted every unit to be scary to tanks, so bought bazookas for everybody. I also wanted to maximize bases which also meant bazookas. I wanted units good against infantry (the infantry themselves, mortars, and artillery) and I wanted units goodish against tanks (anti tank, Tank destroyer, big artillery).
Is there anything I'm missing? Are tank destroyers dumb? They sound like fun, but I have a feeling they are going to spring their ambush, fail to kill anything and promptly blow up. What about air support? The two games I've watched anti-air seemed way more effective than air support. Would air support and a few heavy machine gun crews be a better use of the points than the absurdly expensive tank destroyers?
Over all this seems like a fair number of angry fellows with rifles, machine guns, and more importantly bazookas.
First. You're hired! You haven't even played the game and you're having an easier time than I am coming up with a solid US list. You are now my official "Army List Producer & Analyst."
Second, (your first): Yeah you got it right.
And, as for infantry: Aside from weapon differences, yes some different units have different abilities. Engineers, aside from their ability to pop the tops off tanks better than regular infantry (noted in the "Arsenal" section), do all sorts of fortification/obstacle stuff...which never comes up, even when the defender gets points for free fortifcation, because most players ignore the option or just don't use those scenarios. One of Aaron's best units is his German Assault Pioneers. A unit easily ignored if you don't want to do the work of figuring out how best to ue them. They get weapon options [b]after[/b] looking at the opponent's list.
The rules for them may seem a little scattered...because they are. Some are in the text boxes of the unit, some at the "Arsenal" section at the end of each Intelligence handbook. And universal ones are in the section of the core rule book to which they apply. For instance, there is a large amount of Engineer/Pioneer stuff in the fortification/obstacle section of the core rulebook. Your mini rulebook [i]may[/i] be lain out differently. I can't recall. Often, the main unit choice section will give a general description of wher in the core rulebook you'ld expect to find it. Like saying things such as "these guys stomp infantry especially well with their flamethrowers."
Ok. Subjectivity, I trust a lot of your calls on this one, more than my own :D . I am a fan of the add-ons like AAMG's (which are only "self defense" if they are called "self defense anti-aircraft") However, this game is well balanced, and if something seems too good for it's cost, there's probably something to offset it. For instance when a unit fires at aircraft, they are limited in what they can do next turn. If they happen to be a tank, then they have unbuttoned to fire, and are easier to kill in assault that turn!!!
The game seems to really be about diversity of forces. Yes you can sometimes stomp the hell out of someone with an overabundance of one type of unit. But this is far less reliable than other mini games (a selling point, in my book.) So, with that in mind I like your list.
Another neat thing about this game....the typical actual war tactic works really freaking well in this game: "Find 'em, pin 'em, flank 'em and destroy 'em." It really works out that way in the game. So rather than pick apart your specific list choices, ask yourself, do you have the means to find, pin, flank then destroy generally any force. If you do, then you'll probably kick the asses of my stupid "walk right up the middle" panzergrenadiers. Dave does it, Aaron does it. And they have pretty good records. With only 2000 points, you don't really have room to go overboard with anything, without obviously ignoring something else.
US Tank Destroyers scare the hell out of my expensive tanks!!! Their simple existence just changes my tactics, even before they hit the board.
Look! You got me to type with wind of seven men!!!
Ok, so I've been looking at the rules for Flames of War again. I already have enough stuff to nearly field a British Tank company. However, the army list for US Rifle Company calls out to me again. It appears that US rifle company can take armored units as support.
Here is my new potential list, feel free to compare and contrast with the previous list that I made.
HQ
Combat
Rifle Platoon x 3 + 3 Bazooka
Weapon
Mortar Platoon + 2 Bazooka
Heavy Machine Gun Platoon + 2 Bazooka
Support
M10 3inch One section
Field Battery Full + Bazooka
Bofors Full + Bazooka
Sherman 5 Tank Squad
Limit Air Support
So what do you think of the new list? It doesn't have the symmetry of the original list, but it uses the Shermans that I already have.
Looks pretty terrifying to me.
Appears, from a quick look to have what's needed to handle all enemy forces somewhat, with even a few hundred points of tanks able to run across the board and threaten an objective or reinforce a successful assault from the infantry.
It sounds like your assement for question 1 is correct, although I do not have an afrika codex on hand.
Infantry is pretty much all the same, except for, as you said, having different weapons. I've never really understood the point of engineer platoons or ammo platoons, etc. It isn't like these little special things make for cool combos like you see in Warmachine or Magic the gathering.
Paratroopers deploy on the table during the game, not before. I thought there was a note on how it worked in one of the books (back of Afrika I think), but I can't be sure.
Your list looks pretty good from what I remember about americans.
I rarely take AA mounts on tanks or jeeps because you can only use them if THAT platoon is being attacked. However, since you're upgrading, like, everything, that isn't half bad.
On the other hand, you might not want that much. I've found that just the mobile AA is usually enough. All those other points are kind of wasted.
Having 2 anti tank teams, AND m10s might be a bit excessive as well. M10's are UGLY with a capital UG. BIG guns...VERY scary. I'm not sure how tough the anti tank platoons are, but I'd imagine they aren't too shabby.
But you might think of just taking some normal tanks instead of the M10s...some lees or shermans.
My last suggestion is work on a 1000-1500 point list first and test out the various ideas you have (lots of upgrades, the M10s, no M10s, Lots of AA upgrades, no AA upgrades, etc etc) before making 2000.
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Official Gamer Hooligan