Considering WHFB

Another thing that would be super helpful for those of us who do not want to read strategies and tactics and the like is to just give us basic premise as to how each different race/army tends to play.

Both of us have been debating the WHFB game and with what little of it is played in-store right now its hard to get a good grasp as to what each faction has for a feel to them.

I myself have been leaning Chaos, Skaven, Tomb Kings.

From what I understand about Skaven from my highschool days is that they are the swarm/dirty tricks race. They have assassins that leap out to kill heroes, flame throwers with green fire and general meanness. I would put them along the lines with Cryx, in the fact that they field tons of crap and hit hard in vital areas.

I have no idea when it comes to dark elves except Ive never been impressed with their models. Im sure they do SOMETHING cool.

I cant say much about the game, but tricking out your heroes and units looks like a lot of fun. Large creatures look like they have a lot of staying power and heroes seem impressive, but unable to fight mobs on their own. The movement rules seem like the core of the tatical aspect, along with psychology. I am glad to see everything is not fearless.

As you know, I am drawn to wood elves for their sneaky ways. That and trees are easy to paint.

From what I understand about Skaven from my highschool days is that they are the swarm/dirty tricks race. They have assassins that leap out to kill heroes, flame throwers with green fire and general meanness. I would put them along the lines with Cryx, in the fact that they field tons of crap and hit hard in vital areas.

I have no idea when it comes to dark elves except Ive never been impressed with their models. Im sure they do SOMETHING cool.

I cant say much about the game, but tricking out your heroes and units looks like a lot of fun. Large creatures look like they have a lot of staying power and heroes seem impressive, but unable to fight mobs on their own. The movement rules seem like the core of the tatical aspect, along with psychology. I am glad to see everything is not fearless.

As you know, I am drawn to wood elves for their sneaky ways. That and trees are easy to paint.

[quote="Griff"]Hey all,

So I was thinking about getting into Warhammer Fantasy, but I really don't know much about the game. I was wondering if there were some good and current online resources for fantasy battle, for instance strategy discussions and the like.

I was also wondering if I could get some insight from some people who already play. Looking at the models I really like the looks of the Vampire Counts, the Skaven, and the dark elves. The rest of the models barring a few exceptions I could take or leave. I like the idea of being able to summon new units, potentially on a flank or even behind an enemy. I assume that is basically how the Vampire counts play.

How about the other two? I'm assuming the Skaven are all about swarming with cheap units. The dark elves look like they just bring big hard hitting units (but this could be a huge misconception on my part).

Out of morbid curiosity, how many skeleton units would I probably need for a 'standard' size battle (whatever size that may be), assuming I was trying to cast summon skeletons the maximum number of times per turn?[/quote]

I have to admit I love Warhammer Fantasy. Its a better rule system than 40K. But just like 40K, NEVER play 'attrition' (i.e. never play to the last man standing...aka lets just kill each other)

Since the GW forums are gone, I can't tell you much for strategy sites...they are scattered all over the net.

I play Ogres and Night goblins.

I can also say EVERY army seems to have something very cool about it. When I was looking into the game WAY back, I figured I'd be happy playing pretty much any army except for chaos and dark elves. Not because they aren't 'good' armies...I just don't dig playing the guys who like being evil for evil sake...

A standard size battle is USUALLY 2000 points (everyone ALWAYS wants to have a lord) but sometimes they play 1500 points.

[quote="zack"]Another thing that would be super helpful for those of us who do not want to read strategies and tactics and the like is to just give us basic premise as to how each different race/army tends to play.

Both of us have been debating the WHFB game and with what little of it is played in-store right now its hard to get a good grasp as to what each faction has for a feel to them.

I myself have been leaning Chaos, Skaven, Tomb Kings.[/quote]

All the armies have a general theme behind them, but of course there are variations you can run...

Lets see if I can sum up:

Beasts of Chaos - aka beastmen...woodsy ambush type guys...mostly HtH

Hordes of Chaos - mostly human who like to kill and worship demons (LOTS of variety) NASTY in HtH, but can also make for some impressive magic armies

Brettonnia - picture classic arthusian legends...lots of charging knights (kinda boring actually)...UGLY on a charge, not much shooting...decent magic

Dark elves - never played them or against them...from what I understand they use lots of specialized units (?)

Dwarfs - 'Guns...lots of guns'...pretty stubborn units, but slow...lots of shooting, but some decent HtH units...no magic! instead they have 'runes' which give little abilities and boosts to various units

Empire - also lots of guns, but pretty much a standard medieval human army...lots of variety (shooting, HtH and magic)

Lizardmen - best mages in the game (the Slann), but also tough stubborn units, pretty good in HtH, not much for shooting

Ogre Kingdoms - probably the hardest army to play IMHO...tough units...very fast movers...but SOOOO easy to be outnumbered...HtH based, poor magic (only buff spells really), poor shooting

Orcs and goblins - very chaotic (not evil chaotic like chaos, but just wierd randomness chaotic)...lots of HtH...usually LOTS of troops...also lots of variety...some shooting but pretty poor...

Skaven - definitely about the hordes of units...lots of sneaky tricks and evilness...poisons, mutants, etc etc...not sure what else they have

Tomb kings - not too sure...Tim can say more, but I think they are pretty magically based.

Wood elves - lots of skirmishing guys...lots of shooting and arrows...lots of woods based spells and abilities...pretty good in HtH

Vampire counts - mostly HtH...pretty much everything is weak but fearless so they become a sort of army of attrition (i.e. keep the enemy tied up with skeletons while the REAL troops flank)...you'd definitely want an extra box of skeletons for every two standard units you plan on fielding

High elves - STUPIDLY broken now. They ALWAYS go first in HtH even if someone charges them. So now they have guys who are WS5 S6 that get two attacks...utterly dumb. About the only way to beat them now is to build up the ultimate in cheese shooting lists
High elves are so broke, I'd be surprised if any HE players can even find opponents nowadays

Is that enough info?

This was exactly the kind of information I was looking for.

Only thing I see missing is the Dogs of War. I was looking at them on the GW site and they seem pretty spiffy (at least look that way as they are all mercenaries, but can be played as an army).

Yeah dogs of war are all mercenaries. Those probably have the biggest variety of all simply because 95% of the units are unique units so you usually can't take a second of the same thing...

Interestingly enough, you can take typical units for some of the various armies as units in the dogs of war force....for example, you can actually take a unit of ogres with the DoW...

So they have decent shooting, decent HtH...I'm pretty sure their magic is rather lacking.

I can speak to a few points.

The game tends to be more about out-manuvering your opponent, as you really will only have a few turns of conflict. It tends to feel a lot like what civil war type battles across some farmer's field. Which makes a lot more sense fluff-wise, as it makes sense that a handgun or bow is only going to be effective across a field, but a battle cannon? Rather open boards tend to work well with the game, as opposed to 40K, where a lot of clutter makes for a lot of fun. Where in Warmchine/Hordes you close, do some ungodly combos, succeed or get maybe one or two more shots, before you're both reduced to just outlasting your each other, Fantasy has the same ability to cause massive swings with a good strike that causes a domino effect of failed leadership tests.

There are still some ungodly units/combos that are fairly abusive, Beastmen (Beasts of Chaos) owning some of the worst that I've watched. Undead, Tomb Kings and VC, seems to have some brutal offensive tactics, but are tempered by their very thin skin ([i]actually often lacking any skin, hehe[/i]) and specific units that require protection. Very front-loaded from my experience.

My experience with Empire, and to a lesser degree Orks, has led me to see them as the most average, mid to low point cost of the armies. Empire having the ability to lean towards lots of unreliable yet devastating guns or some really freaking armored cavalry. [i]Technology ftw![/i] Orks gots Giants and flying Goblin Deth! [color=green]WOT!?![/color] Both these armies favor going random now and then, to devastating effect!

Hordes of Chaos (demons and humans) tends to be about very expensive, very intimidating units. 2000 points has always been a constraining number for my Knights and Demonettes. But, if you like over-powered stat lines that make your opponent start to get all red-eyed before you even throw the first strike, they work very well. (And who doesn't want to hear the lamentations of their women?) They do not have the crazy special rules of the Slaan or High Elves, however. And are not better than other armies, just much more intimidating to the untrained eye! :D

Only thing I can say about Dogs of War, and this is pretty iffy, but be prepared to have more models/units/army lists switch back and forth from legal to non-existent as rules change. And you may need to do a bit of digging through odd books to find your rules. Although, it seems WHF generally runs on a slower cycle than 40K.

Dated knowlege, as things have changed more than I've played:

Vampire Counts have more "Piss you off" units than other armies. Ones that have frustrating rules that can't be ignored by your opponent. "What do you mean I have to take a fear test to charge your unit that can only be affected by magical weapons and then it comes back next turn awhile my guys suffer from some crappy 'rot' rule??!?!? I hate you!" More thinky, less random.

Skaven.....Numbers! F***ing numbers on top of numbers. They simply can't kill enough to make up for their losses. Oh and your unit leaders, lead from the back!

Dark Elves. Never a popular choice, I think they are like Wood Elves stat wise, but faster, far more armored, less ranged. They seem to dabble in Chaos as well as Lizardman technology.

My orcs are definitely middle of the road kind of troops with lots of goofy-fun things thrown in to keep from being bored.

Artillery is a crap-shoot. I can't tell you how many times I've lost a rock-lobba on my very first roll. I imagine cannons suffer the same fate. Still, when they work, they work! The most fun I have is with my fanatics. Those guys can change the face of the battlefield all on their own... or not. Skaven have their share of wacky bits as well.

I wasn't really sure what to say on the overall game play, but Seth hit the nail on the head there...

I gotta say I find stone throwers next to useless. The chances of hitting are pretty bad and they tend to scatter doing nothing at all. Its true, when they do hit they tend to hurt alot, but I never seem to see them hit enough to make up their points.

I'm more of a fan of bolt throwers and cannons. Bolt throwers, you still need to roll to hit...but cannons...you have to be a bit of a nob to miss with a cannon. Pretty much point and shoot. And when they hit, they kill LOTS of stuff.

I also have to say the game is pretty balanced except in terms of High Elves and dragons. It seems EVERYONE except the armies I chose (its a conspiracy I tell you) gets a dragon...and those dragons are NASTY NASTY NASTY!
That the ONLY part of the game that upsets me...the fact that dragons and high elves are stupidly overpowered.

I do so love giants though. My favoritest model in the game!!!11! I have fond memories of my giant yelling (yes just yelling) at a vampire and killing him outright...chuckle...

This was exactly the kind of information I was looking for.

Only thing I see missing is the Dogs of War. I was looking at them on the GW site and they seem pretty spiffy (at least look that way as they are all mercenaries, but can be played as an army).

Ok, I think I'm more or less sold on the Vampire Counts, but I want to see the new codex first. No sense buying and getting something different than I expected, or worse no longer playable. That will give me time to check out the Skaven.

All of the rumors for Vampire Counts sound positive. Cheaper Zombies, Free upgrades for skeletons, easier to march the undead, etc. Apparently they are getting a new chariot and banshees are no longer going to be independent models.

Are there any restrictions on spell casting? Somebody mentioned that wizards should only be able to cast a particular spell once. However, it seems that the 7th edition magic rules suggest that you can cast any spell so long as the wizard still has power dice. At 2000 points Vampire counts can have 4 level 2 wizards and you can automatically give them the undead summoning spell, which can be cast for 3+/7+/11+. Does this mean you could cast the 3+ version of the spell 4x2 + 2 + relevent magic item number of times?

Hmmm...havn't heard any rumors of a new vamp book...
I think you'll like the vamp counts...lots to work with

A single wizard can cast a spell once...meaning the same model can't cast it again that turn (without special rules or equipment). If you have a second wizard, yes he can cast that same spell...so with 4 wizards on the board you can cast the same spell 4 times...

At least thats how the rules work that *I* know of...I don't have the 7th ed book, but i don't think that rule has changed...

I'll have some painted Vampire Counts units at the Auction. :wink:

I'll have some painted Vampire Counts units at the Auction. :wink:

I'd be curious to know which units you are putting up?

I'd be curious to know which units you are putting up?

My sources say March on the Vampire Counts release....

Word on the net is Feb for the Codex and a fair number of new releases for models and then march for another good chunk of models. Nothing is confirmed, so it might be march for the whole chunk.

Word on the net is Feb for the Codex and a fair number of new releases for models and then march for another good chunk of models. Nothing is confirmed, so it might be march for the whole chunk.

Well I've got some units of Skeletons, Ghouls, Zombies, Grave Guard, Those Ghosts on monster bases. I'm pretty sure I've got some of the big bats and a unit of Mounted Wights converted from Bretonians. The Army Has a Black Grail Theme running through it. Many of the Zombies are dressed in Red and Black Livery for instance. I'll gather it up, along with the other stuff I'm auctioning and send you a list.

Well I've got some units of Skeletons, Ghouls, Zombies, Grave Guard, Those Ghosts on monster bases. I'm pretty sure I've got some of the big bats and a unit of Mounted Wights converted from Bretonians. The Army Has a Black Grail Theme running through it. Many of the Zombies are dressed in Red and Black Livery for instance. I'll gather it up, along with the other stuff I'm auctioning and send you a list.

I've got a fairly solid date of 2/18 for the VC Spearhead, a $175 box which very likely includes the Army Book and a mix of new and old models.

And then the Army Book and a crapton more (technical term) hits on the 3rd and then the next wave the 17th of March....including the much anticipated Vampire Counts Corpse Cart! [i]Go! Go! Go! Green Zombie![/i]

I've got a fairly solid date of 2/18 for the VC Spearhead, a $175 box which very likely includes the Army Book and a mix of new and old models.

And then the Army Book and a crapton more (technical term) hits on the 3rd and then the next wave the 17th of March....including the much anticipated Vampire Counts Corpse Cart! [i]Go! Go! Go! Green Zombie![/i]

[quote="seth lustig"]....including the much anticipated Vampire Counts Corpse Cart! [i]Go! Go! Go! Green Zombie![/i][/quote]

Bring ouuu' cher deaaaad!

[quote="seth lustig"]....including the much anticipated Vampire Counts Corpse Cart! [i]Go! Go! Go! Green Zombie![/i][/quote]

Bring ouuu' cher deaaaad!

A corpse cart? That sounds kinda neat. What is it some kind of Black coach varient?

A corpse cart? That sounds kinda neat. What is it some kind of Black coach varient?

It is indeed another Chariot for the Vampire Counts. I don't know about the combat ability of the corpse cart, but it has a bound spell that gives all of your undead units within 6 inches of it ASF (always strike first). Not that it helps against high elves since they would have attacked first anyway.

[url=http://bp3.blogger.com/_ts1HdLGjywM/R3mAO1Vd59I/AAAAAAAAAdQ/qDRC4RZZbuQ/s1600-h/VC_CorpseCart.jpg]For a groovy picture check this out.[/url]

It is indeed another Chariot for the Vampire Counts. I don't know about the combat ability of the corpse cart, but it has a bound spell that gives all of your undead units within 6 inches of it ASF (always strike first). Not that it helps against high elves since they would have attacked first anyway.

[url=http://bp3.blogger.com/_ts1HdLGjywM/R3mAO1Vd59I/AAAAAAAAAdQ/qDRC4RZZbuQ/s1600-h/VC_CorpseCart.jpg]For a groovy picture check this out.[/url]

now THAT is a cool model...